User talk:Hero King Marth

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'''Wanna leave a message? Feel free to add a topic below the line!

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Root category
Hey Marth, I wanted to bring up a small change before I implement it. We've been updating wikis to have their root category named after the wiki name, so in this case "Category:Divinipedia" to hold all the other categories instead of the generic "Category:Browse". This is beneficial for search engine optimization. Would I be good to go through with this change? SlyCooperFan1 (talk) 18:14, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

★Marth  09:10:26|February 01, 2021 ★
 * Hey, Sly! That sounds like a great idea; I have no problems with that. Go ahead and make the change, thanks!

Re. Of Myths and Monsters
Hey, I noticed the reversion and was wondering as to what degree there is a controversy felt regarding OMaM and its position as part of the series, and has it been previously discussed by the editors here in-depth? Particularly the phrasing of official. I'm curious because I would be open to raising a case in support of it depending on how OMaM is currently handled on the Wiki... Thanks in advance! JDPManjoume (talk) 22:55, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

★Marth  11:24:09|April 02, 2021 ★
 * Hey! Well, the main point here is that Uprising touts itself as the sequel to the original Kid Icarus, making no references to OMaM, which is understandable, considering that there was no official Japanese release of the game outside of the Virtual Console, and even then, the game itself was only released in NA and EU. If I want to speculate, Dark Pit was probably intended to be the first clone if we consider KI's creator's perspective (if anything, OMaM was more like a spin-off for reasons mentioned before). True, if we decide that OMaM is officially part of the series timeline-wise, then Dark Pit is not the first clone. But if we consider the story background/plot in-game timeline-wise, then Dark Pit is probably the first clone. With that being said, these reasons are already enough to create controversy with varying opinions, so I'd rather not have wiki articles choose a side for something that involves deciding what is official or not. Additionally, Dark Pit's article doesn't have an area in the trivia where it states that he is the first clone, so I'd rather leave it neutral and not mention anything about who/what came first. Thanks for your understanding!


 * Thanks for the reply. Hm, I see... Well, I certainly wasn't trying to assert any notion of what is and isn't canonical by saying 'in the series', but rather from the perspective of production, if that makes sense? There is certainly precedent in media series for considering installments part of a series overall even when elements of or the entirety of their plot are no longer canonical. Superman, Terminator and Halloween come to mind as notable instances - Halloween probably being the most infamous of them.
 * It is certainly worth saying as an aside that there is no doubt for me personally that plot-wise, OMaM is rather put out by even just the mere fact that Pit still has his wings in KI:U when OMaM ends with them being completely burnt off. But with a line under that, I would think it could still be called official in the sense of it being part of the series and as something you could discuss in non-plot/non-gameworld. Games like Mother 3 and some of the Ace Attorney show that the lack of a release in a certain region can be excused if the community feels so. And it is certainly licensed by Nintendo.
 * I would wonder if perhaps a reasonable and non-controversial distinction could be made between official and canonical, so that OMaM could be discussed in non-plot sections in a careful manner that wouldn't enforce its plot. Though, I totally understand the rationale for the Dark Pit trivia and agree on reflection that it can be left alone.
 * One notable complexity for either side of such a discussion would be that an official site has referred to OMaM as a sequel... but I would think there's room for an interesting discussion there! JDPManjoume (talk) 00:20, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Since you're here
I would welcome aid on the Request For Adminship management. I would like to handle Divinipedia in general to get it revved up instead of having it stuck on life support, preferably by improving the foundation for further edit handling by other users to help people with the game which itself already causes confusion from control and balance issues alike, in addition to being able to do things within less issue like add clarification that OMOM and SSBB are both practically outside the official canon, my opinion about that notion of course. Additionally, I would welcome security from abuses by the likes of Kid Icarus community members who would use insults like "incel dot com" and only later try to justify them as sarcasm. I hope that you can at least provide a good response. MasterKnight (talk) 23:19, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

★Marth  11:33:56|April 02, 2021 ★
 * Hey there, MasterKnight! First of all, thank you for all your contributions thus far! Regarding your request, thank you for your interest; that sounds like a fine idea, but I'll want to get the approval of the other admins. 8bitPit, if you're reading this, what do you think? (If I don't get a response for a couple of days, I'll tackle their talk page.)


 * Thank you. I also want to bring up that Divinipedia could use a Discord server. If I have to create it myself, I would definitely need aid in establishing rules on it, but it would be in interest of breathing life into Divinipedia with a consistent recruitment base. I had a few interesting multiplayer matches just now with a guy named burrow when he used Ogre Club and they have me wanting to think about when Lightweight is frustrating to deal with and when it is actually fun to fight. Things like that would be easier to sort out with a Discord server to gather these people when what would also help a potential remake or sequel is making sure the developers understand from input by a vocal group how to sand out the edges with the balance just as much as with the controls. I imagine people would enjoy a remake/sequel more when they get something that would have the development depth we missed with the handling of Super Mario 3D All Stars. MasterKnight (talk) 01:13, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

★Marth  06:31:54|April 04, 2021 ★
 * I would agree that a Discord server would likely help build the community for those who are interested in interacting with others of the same fanbase; however, managing a Discord server is something I do not have the time to assist with, unfortunately, and I believe 8bitPit said something similar when this topic was brought up a while back, if I remember correctly. I think that part might be the most difficult part when it comes to creating a Discord server. However, that does not mean a Discord server for this wiki cannot be created.


 * hey, sorry i’m late to this conversation! while i do agree that this wiki would benefit immensely from having an active mod, i’m sorry to say that i do not agree with promoting masterknight. i really don’t mean to play hardball here, i genuinely would appreciate extra help, but masterknight is actually infamous in this fandom for his colorful past, as well as his combative attitude over all.


 * at this present time i cannot trust that the decision to promote him would be a good one, and while i appreciate the work he's done here, i believe he can continue the work he's been doing as a regular member if he so chooses. please don’t take this personally, i hope you understand! 8bitPit (talk) 22:36, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

★Marth  12:31:40|April 05, 2021 ★
 * No worries; thank you for your input! I was not aware of his infamous past, but thank you for the information. In that case, MasterKnight, I will have to turn down your request for adminship.


 * (To 8bitpit) So you're inviting harassment toward my person. If you say otherwise, well, I know that wouldn't be what it sounds like, unless you wish to explain this being somehow valid conduct from the Kid Icarus Uprising communities, by your very claims. Yes, if you're going to shift this toward off-site politics, then guess what? I can play that hawk-dove game too, except, of course, I have evidence, and that snapshot was taken by the original target of the "incel dot com" insult too. Said target, by the way, has pointed out how the Kid Icarus Uprising communities thrive on having power to abuse, instead of trying to come to certain agreements or conclusions so that we wouldn't bash each other's brains out. But hey, if you want me to be "combative" because somehow that would help the community more than addressing link issues that would surely show up on Maintenance Reports that would provide ease of navigation, all you have to do is make tone-deaf accusations screaming double standards. Spoilers: no, that wasn't cool. The unwarranted and unbacked comments about my person simply push the whole thing over the edge. If you don't want my annoyance, then just say "I deny this" as your public comment and leave the details on a Discord server like this one run by the guy named LemonEdd that needs more TLC to begin with. Public claims like yours only invite trolls to rampage. MasterKnight (talk) 18:33, 30 April 2021 (UTC)


 * (To Hero King Marth) I wouldn't mind not having admin powers if 1) Maintenance Reports were actually made use of or better yet more available to public usage for hunting down bad links; and 2) as I outlined, the bad guys were deterred from causing any problems that extends to them going as far as to come up with the clan name "Don't Cry Noob" thinking that could possibly be not toxic, and of course refusing to show themselves repentant at all, instead willing to hide behind admin powers to throw about "incel dot com" insults while this brand of darwinism runs amok. At least please tell me you'll actually try to address those problems. This place could use the TLC, I know that much. MasterKnight (talk) 18:33, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

★Marth  07:58:23|April 30, 2021 ★
 * I apologize; since I'm not in the know of what exactly transpires in the KI community and, admittedly, I've long moved away from this fandom anyway, there's not enough context for me to make any solid decisions; and it would be fallacious of me to believe that I have true authority over this. On a neutral standpoint, I believe we can come to a compromise. 8bit, it sounds to me that all MasterKnight wants to do is wiki maintenance and keeping any trolls at bay. If that is the case, I don't see why we would need to bring politics into this if these tasks have nothing to do with "combative attitudes," provided that, on the part of managing users, MasterKnight follows this wiki's guidelines for blocking users. Additionally, MasterKnight would only need sysop permissions to access the Maintenance Reports, an admin level that is just below bureaucrats; so if anything too dramatic were to happen, you (8bit) would still have the ability to demote them. Now, if we're talking about establishing an official Discord server for this wiki, then attitudes would certainly matter, as it is a social platform, and we would not want the wrong people representing this wiki. And if we need to keep this ranking consistent, then that would mean that this server can only exist if one of us (I understand if it would probably have to be me) were to create it and have all the permissions, while MasterKnight would sit at a rank one lower, with only the necessary permissions. This would also mean that, if any members were to have issues with MasterKnight's behavior, then I hope that you (MasterKnight) would at least responsibly escalate the matter to me (or 8bit, if you do decide to just be there if any support is needed). The Discord part, of course, is only hypothetical at this point, since it's not guaranteed that we will create one; but at least for the wiki permissions, I would appreciate it if you (8bit) were to consider the admin request again with what I've said in mind and then present to me your final decision to either reject or approve the request. If you approve of it, then we will decide the next steps afterwards; but if you reject it, then the matter is settled, and I would appreciate it if any more concerns between the two of you would be moved to either of your talk pages. I hope this is reasonable enough.


 * first, I wanna start by apologizing for taking so long—some recent life changes have swept me away from this side of the internet and I meant to respond sooner, but one thing led to another and now, here I am, responding almost a month late... T^T'


 * but back to the conversation at hand, I'd like to point out that the trolls he speaks of, which he has provided screenshots of, are not on the wiki nor are they affiliated with us. they pose no threat to him on this wiki, so needing adminship for that is a null point. also, from what I've seen of his edits, he doesn't need moderator privileges to continue what he's doing currently. if he needs something changed every once in a while that only admins can do, he can just request us to do it, couldn't he?


 * I really don't intend to be difficult here, I know full well that there's a time and place for politics, but my concerns aren't exactly "political"—I didn't want to drag this into things out of respect and courtesy, but it looks like it'd be beneficial to lessen my restraints a bit here. masterknight is not only extremely combative (I've seen examples of this on other platforms, plus, he's proving this very point with the nature of his response) but he's also notorious for severe misogyny, which would make this place unwelcoming for a good many editors.


 * I'm very sorry about all the trouble, hero king, but my final answer will still have to be no. I truly hope you can understand where I'm coming from here. :c 8bitPit (talk) 03:40, 22 May 2021 (UTC)

★Marth  08:30:57|May 22, 2021 ★
 * Not a problem! I thought it only reasonable to consider his request a second time after he made a point that he can't access the wiki's Maintenance Reports without being an admin (and I'm not active enough to actually use them), and I may or may not have misinterpreted his idea of deterring trolls as regarding just this wiki's community. But, as I've said, since your final decision is still a declination of MasterKnight's request, then this matter is settled. Thank you for your input, 8bit.